Life and Time are intrinsically linked, yet we are often caught out by both in different ways. We often see life as a progression of choices, that it is our own will which causes the present to be what it is, our lives shaped by determination, and yet Time’s hand is often overlooked, the quip of fate perhaps forgotten in the so called age of reason, and above all the chance encounter of a lyric shared becoming a link in which the forging of all is recognised only after Time has elapsed and lost in the fog of recognition.
It is to the shared lyric that Time is honoured in 2018, a combination appearing that some will suggest was created by a feeling of magic, or in which some will claim was meant to be, written in the stars, written in ink and sweat, a healthy glow of imagination. The lyric may have been unexpected but from the beginning was always going to be a match made in musical and aural heaven.
For Daniel Saleh and Vanessa Murray, the thought of working together as a duo may have been the furthest thing from their minds at the start of the year but as we creep uncertainly, inescapably towards a new dawn, a closure of a decade, one of the final great hurrahs would have been the moment when Vanessa’s And Daniel’s band, White Little Lies, shared the stage with Limerance, Two Black Sheep and Me and Deboe at the Music Room inside the Philharmonic Hall for Liverpool Acoustic’s night of fantastic duos. It was a hurrah that was more than worth celebrating, it was the realisation that when Vanessa Murray performed at Thornton Hough in January, that Time and Life were always going to collide, and the end result is only the start of something which will surely be seen as exceptional as they continue onwards.
In the aftermath of the performance at the Music Room I was able to meet up with Vanessa and Daniel and talk to them in the more comfortable setting of the cafe inside the FACT Centre, an early morning rendezvous in which the pair were able to talk at length, their inspirations laid bare, their thoughts a myriad of compulsive listening, a morning in which Time felt as if for once it was able to relax and allow the freedom of conversation to truly take shape.
It’s been a hell of a year, as I’ve previously said in my review of your gig as part of the Liverpool Acoustic evening at the Music Rooms; you’ve really made an impact in this past year, haven’t you?
VM: “They were very kind words, thank you for the review, we’re so happy. I don’t think we really expected it at all.”
DS: “The way we write, I think this is the most kind of commercial I’ve ever had the opportunity to write. The songs all seem to be kind of poppy but with that kind of country-folk vibe, so I think we are really easy to listen to in that sense.”
DS : “From a song-writing point of view, Vanessa’s always the chorus writer for the most part and I tend to come in the more abstract ideas and the we kind of put it together in some kind of collage and that eventually becomes a song. If you hear anything with a catchy chorus, that’s more than likely to be Vanessa’s thing, Vanessa’s brainchild at two o’ clock in the morning because I don’t go to sleep, I basically work on through the night and send her something through the next morning and then we work from there. Lyrically, it’s definitely a complete joint thing really.”
VM: “I would say I’m more of an obvious writer than Dan, Dan is really good at doing all the metaphors and things like that and the play on words, I think he’s really good at that and I think my song-writing has become stronger because since working with him…”
DS: “It’s grown symbiotically so…
VM: “It’s so easy as well, it started from us working together and you just came down and we just harmonised on a song and we looked at each other – it was a Whitney Houston song!”
DS: “I feel lyrically that’s always been something that’s been straightforward for me, not the finished article but the kind of flow, I find myself sometimes getting into a state – I write metaphorically but it’s kind of a balancing act as you don’t want to write too metaphorically and lose what you were talking about in the first place.”
It’s there, you can see it and when you’re listening to your songs on stage you can hear it but what’s it like to have people asking you what’s that song about? They might not get it if they haven’t been paying attention.
DS: “I feel like, if you look at the two songs we did the videos for – Hurricane and Young Love, they perfectly capture the two sides of song-writing. Hurricane was Vanessa’s baby, she had the chorus and the rough verse and melody. We wrote that pretty much in an hour but then Young Love, she just had the guitar riff and then I sort of got obsessed and I worked on that song and that become sort of my baby. Both of our songs emulated in those two songs, I still think we’re evolving.”
VM: “I think we’re just getting stronger and stronger and we’ve done some pretty good things this year. We’ve supported Nashville singer-songwriter Amelia White and we’ve played the Atkinson Theatre, Southport and the Philharmonic gig has definitely been our favourite gig of the year.”
DS: “That was the crowning jewel of the year.”
That was an astounding night – rarely do I go to a night where there were four incredibly strong acts, joint headliners, who I’ve watched over the years grown and I’m thinking I can’t separate this as a review. This was one of the first times this has ever happened to me. How on earth do I separate all four acts? Again, you were outstanding!
DS: “I’ve worked as a musician for years and I feel that gig was one of the few gigs where every single act was really good, felt strong and had their own identity. I’m a huge fan of Me and Deboe, I could have watched them all night, really nice. We’ve got a great photo which I want to post on the internet of Me and Deboe in the dressing room with them. It’s a nice moment to look at it, Me and Deboe are an act that we both respected and hope to try and emulate to a degree, so it was really nice just to share the bill with them.
They are very funny and from a guitarist’s point of view, I get entranced watching Mercy play when she’s doing the percussive style, you can’t take your eyes off it. It was really an honour to share the bill with them.”
It was lovely to be there and it’s a bit odd and weird in that I’ve known you for so long but as being in part of a band and now you’re doing your solo stuff like at the start of the year at Thornton Hough, to see you now in a duo, it’s a really good fit. I don’t know Dan very well obviously although your love of books astounds and thrills me but it’s really brought you forward.
VM: “I don’t think anyone expected it, I put a post online the other day because I’m having so much fun in this duo, I’ve never felt this happy in music before. I graduated two years ago and I think that’s when we had an interview here last after I released the E.P. and I remember finishing university and getting a job and feeling that I’d lost it, I didn’t feel motivated, I couldn’t finish a song, I didn’t want to. Ever since meeting Dan, I feel so inspired again, he’s very intelligent, I’m learning things from him and he’s just a lovely person to be around. A lot of people didn’t realise that I’d lost it and it’s just interesting, I kept trying to do my own stuff but as much as I enjoyed the performance side but then there was something deep down that I was missing but I feel that I’ve found it.”
DS: “I feel like that at the very inception of it was we went to see a band called Little Big Town and at this point, we’d only had one or two rehearsals and it was still very fledgling but there was a moment when I knew stood watching them play that I thought that this would be us one day. I think now we have a kind of rhythm, especially writing-wise I feel that I know what Vanessa’s going to bring to the table and I think she knows what I will bring to the table.”
That’s very interesting, it’s great to hear to say that out loud, they may say it privately and it’s very similar to the way Don Henley and Glen Frey got together – I want to work with you because I know what I’m going to get.
DS: “We had a while where we entertained the idea of a third singer and we had a few rehearsals and as wonderful as the people were we tried out, we realised that the core of it lies with the two of us. The writing style now that we have together is really strong. We have ten songs that are kind of half finished.”
Is there going to be an album within the next year or so?
DS: “There’s going to be an E.P. first and we’re going to push that and we’re delving into the idea of getting a band behind us because obviously there are certain songs that when we play live we both hear a band and I think the duo gig really worked well in the Philharmonic and it had that stripped-back nature to it but I definitely know that the mutual banter that we both like has that dynamic of band and non-band.”
I can’t remember which song it was now, it was halfway through the set, I could hear Vicky Read doing cello in the back of it, not much else at that point but I would love to have heard Vicky play.
DS: “We both have our own bands that we like, I’m one of those people who like prog so I’m a dangerous person to leave with a stripped-back song, it would probably end up with harpsichord on it or something. There are certain bands that we both love – the Wandering Hearts are a huge influence, I just love everything about them, the aesthetic, the way they look, the way the set up live but I think for me, being a guitarist more so than being a songwriter, I feel that I’ve moulded into a different thing in becoming more of a songwriter than a guitarist and I definitely hear that full-band, Eagles-like vibe, basically we’re going to be throwing a lot of stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks”
VM: “We’re very excited to try it all out”
DS: “We’ve got a lot of friends who are really fantastic musicians as well and we’re very lucky and we’re very grateful”
It must be great having support like that as well.
DS: “I feel very lucky as I feel that we must have something really good because Liverpool is saturated with amazing songwriters. You could walk around anywhere and see art of any kind on any corner, it’s a nice feeling to know that we’ve made some sort of headway this year in such a short space of time. We connected with a lot of people who have reached out to us.”
If Liverpool people like you, they will go out of their way to love you and if they don’t like you, then you’ve got no chance!
DS: “To coin a phrase “There’s something in the water.”
VM: “In 2019, we definitely want to branch out of Liverpool a bit more, go to Manchester and Leeds.”
DS: “We’ve got the bit between our teeth now, we can say what shows we want to the promoter now. We’ve got two shows lined up with a band called The Black Feathers who are a folk-Americana duo and we’re so excited about them- 8th February at 81 Renshaw Street and 9th February is in Manchester at the Castle Hotel.”
VM: “There’s a couple more as well at the Whiskey Jar on 15th January and we’re going to the Atkinson on 3rd April.”
DS: “The main thing is now is that we’ve reset the ball in motion and the next big thing is recording as we’re getting bombarded at every gig with have you got anything we can listen to – so that’s goal number one.”
VM: “Definitely, it’s so nice that people want to hear something from us and I feel that now with people asking us, is that we’ll do all right with our CDs sales.”
DS: “I agree, I also feel that right now I don’t feel that we’re the finished article, that we’re still moulding into something else. We’re always having conversations about what we want to do image-wise and aesthetically how we look. Funnily enough, I think the music is the most solid thing. I think we’re just going to base ourselves around our own music rather than the music being a reflection of us, I feel that we’re trying to catch up with our own music and fit into what we’re writing”
How different do you see yourselves from the other duos around?
DS: “How I see the distinction is that a lot of people have put us with Limerance – a male/female duo who are brilliant people – I feel that they sit more on the folk side of the fence whereas we’re more on the country side of it. If I was asked to draw a distinction, that would be where it lies. They are more fundamentally folk.”
VM: “We’re very melody-driven as well.”
DS: “I also couldn’t do the one-microphone thing as well.”
VM: “You’re a really loud singer anyway so I think it would be difficult”
DS: “I’ve always got to take my vocals down- I have no filter! You’re delicate I’m like a hammer, I’m a bowling ball through a greenhouse!”
Ian D. Hall