The relationship between musician and producer can be one of fraught power struggles or one of harmonious honesty and collaborative heaven, either way some of the finest music to ever come out of the studio hangs on the ability to get the best out of both sets of people. Whether it is from the side of the demanding and musical square bashing, the lyrical drip feed of art based torture or the gentle persuasion and coaxing available, the sweet smile of getting the maximum job done with the full throttle approach, it only matters in the end if it goes badly, when it goes well, when the music sounds like the finest well oiled machine, that’s when it’s so smooth it practically sings with the range of an angel handing out chocolate.
For musician Nicola Hardman and producer Dan Barker, the relationship comes across as one of elegance, the sound so well captured that it doesn’t even realise how free it actually is, how liberated it makes the listener feel and in Nicola Hardman’s fantastic debut Full Beans, that freedom of expression is bountiful and almost limitless.
Over the sound of brisk January trade in hot steaming coffee and tea, the odd hot brunch being ordered and the near audible look of dismay at the rain pounding away at the streets, Nicola Hardman and Dan Barker meet up to discuss how well the album was framed and the way the relationship worked.
Congratulations on the album, it is a tremendous piece of art.
Nicola: “Thank you very much.”
It seems to gel so much and whilst that was obviously the intention, did it surprise you how striking it would be?
Nicola: “It was a boss gel, it was good, I don’t know what to say other than I’m really pleased with our collaboration. It’s just a really cool thing that has happened and I feel a little bit like a fairy tale about it.”
What was it like working with Dan?
Nicola: “Oh it was terrible (laughs).”
I know you don’t mean that.
Nicola: “It was absolutely wonderful, I have said this time and time again, it was just really nice to meet someone who creatively gets you and who is able to get the best out of you and the songs. I remember talking to you last time about making the album and the development of the songs and that is exactly what Dan has done and he has gone above and beyond. The songs sound so brilliant now. There were some songs where I came into the studio to record something and Dan was just like, “so I’ve done this..” and I could only say how awesome it was.”
Was this a feeling that was replicated with you Dan, producing wise?
Dan: “Yes I think so. I mean when we started off we really did just the one track and we got to the end of it and I thought this is really quite good we should do some more and after two tracks it turns out your recording an album and it went from there. One of the difficult things for me working with Nic was her songs have only ever existed as a voice and piano, so it was really trying to decide on how to develop it and how the eventual sound was going to be and again about three or four tracks into the album I said I think I’m turning this into a rock album and she said yes.”
You seem to have captured the essence of Nicola’s acting ability also across all the songs.
Nicola: “It’s just me bossing him around saying I want it to sound like this! (Laughs)”
Dan: “It probably wasn’t quite as bossy as all that, in all seriousness there were discussions backwards and forwards on how things should go and Nic had very strong ideas on how things should sound but once we got into it I worked out that I do what I do for her and it worked, that was good.”
A couple of the songs have effectively been around for a while but in this recording they seem to flow with the current all the way through. What was it in that vision to go with this kind of movement all the way through?
Nicola: “Well like Dan says, he just did his thing and it’s a really rock progressive thing that has come out on the album, I have a lot of rock in me anyway and I wanted it to develop that way and I think if it hadn’t I would have been upset. It has worked really well between the two of us. The song Little Fish already existed and I think it is the most theatrical song that has been developed in my mind to what I wanted, yes it’s exactly as I wanted it to sound.”
It is the sense of dramatic that you have, not just through the songs but the way you present the album, the title Full Beans, it is a very simple idea but it has huge impact. Not wishing to put it in the same bracket but like Meat Loaf’s Bat Out of Hell you know exactly what you are going to get as soon as you put it on, unless it’s a complete and utter lie, it’s going to be forceful, it’s going to be direct.
Nicola: “I think both of us have had a long period of building up creatively and it’s come together so well. It’s almost been “everything from me” and then “everything from you” and that’s how it has come out, Full Beans was like a title we came up with in the studio one day, I think I was p****d off with something I was singing and I couldn’t get it so I was like I need to do this full beans, really getting annoyed about it and it kind of just went from there.”
It’s great really as you just get so used to hearing different generations talk and the phrases they put in, the phrase I hear a lot is cool beans and you get your head round that as an older person but Full Beans is almost something that harks back to post second world war, it’s a tremendous image, the rolling up of the sleeves, the women in full flow after what could be seen as a kind of liberation of spirit in their lives.
Nicola: “It is just a kind of giving it your all.”
Dan: “I think for me it just highlights the progression between Nic playing the songs, just herself and the piano, it’s the full thing, it’s the full beans version I suppose.”
With the idea of how well you have captured the songs in the studio and to have they have perceived to have changed since they first drew breath, is it possible to see how they would appear with the full treatment in a band setting live?
Dan: “I think Nic is possibly always going to out and play her songs as just her and a piano from time to time, but talking about evolving I think they have already gone down that road into to something when playing live because we use drums, bass, one guitar and keyboards, it is a slightly different angle once again.”
You have already gone out in Liverpool with the songs since recording the album, are there plans to out further afield with them?
Nicola: “Yes absolutely, We didn’t know what was going to happen, we just met each other, we had this gelling moment which went really well and Dan has developed the songs for me, we didn’t know where it was going to go but we knew we wanted to play it live and tour so we were looking for session musicians really, the guys we found in actual fact are just amazing, Shawn Charvette on bass and Phil Mann on drums, they have just been really great to have as band members, they have done it as close to the C.D. as is possible but at the same time they have placed their own bits in there which is what we wanted them to do and hopefully that will be a thing that sticks.”
You’ve now done the difficult first album, what are the plans for a follow up, are you almost immediately going to go and record new songs or is it too early to be spoken of yet?
Nicola: “We are definitely planning on number two, there is a strategic plan set out, the plan is there and we are hoping that Phil and Shawn are going to come into that with us. The next big evolution is going to happen for us and take us further with four people.”
You really have come on so far, so quickly in the last eighteen months all of a sudden, it is a terrific achievement and the album is already one of the recordings of the year. It is towering, intense and bountiful and been so well captured by Dan, are you mindful of that, that you don’t want to lose that intensity?
Dan: “The album itself came out on the fifth of December and we were busy playing all that month and we realise we need to keep that momentum going but also keep moving forward at the same time, we have plans for the second one and having done the first one we know the time scales involved; we are going to play the life out of this one and keep it going and get it out to as many people as we can.”
Nicola: “We played in the Pilgrim at the start of the month with Those Naughty Lumps which was cool and we are booking some gigs in London at the moment, we’re looking to book gigs all over so it all going onwards.”
Ian D. Hall